The Rachio product is worthless - Getting Started - Rachio Community
The Rachio product is worthless
post by Even on Jul 20, 2024
I’m ready to return this worthless controller. It rained 1.25" last night AS PREDICTED and before I went to bed I checked the program and it said it would skip. But an hour before it was to run (3 am), it notified me that it would run…who is awake?? Sure enough, it ran. This happened before after a 2" rain. I have set the saturation rate, I have tried the local weather station and the aggregate to no avail. There is something terribly wrong with this software and don’t know why anyone would use it. I am very tech savvy but this system is beyond user friendly. My irrigation guy said Hunter is much more reliable and easier to use. It has wasted so much of my time, I’m ready to take a loss and switch. But we have 12 zones so I think I will save in the long run as our water is more expensive than in the city. I have attempted to resolve this through their support department which is shipped overseas. It is difficult to understand them. Even though they SEEM to know the screens and functionality, they obviously don’t understand the concepts. have no clue how to help me or they would have.
post by alanh220 on Jul 22, 2024
I added a Hunter rain sensor (required where I live in Florida; for some reason I didn’t have one) and - especially in summer, where it can rain at the drop of a hat - it has made a big difference in avoiding redundant watering. I received an email from Rachio on this; check their web site on how to rig it up. I used the wireless sensor which was super easy to set up. And cheap-ish.
post by tmcgahey on Jul 22, 2024
Feel free to post a bit more than just slander of a product you may or may not fully understand. There are literally thousand and thousands of people that successfully use Rachio. I’ve set up over 20 units for myself, friends and family over the last 8 years, and they all work very well, but they only work as well as the information they are fed. Garbage in, garbage out.
To start, what kind of schedule are you working with? What are your zone settings? Can you confirm that whatever PWS you are pointed to is ACTUALLY showing the precipitation you saw?
post by Fl-user on Jul 22, 2024
Be aware that those Hunter rain sensors do not survive long in Florida. Mine failed in about a year. I’m glad Rachio doesn’t need one because it can work with a real weather station in your yard and not rely on the expanding disc (sponge) inside the rain sensor.
post by championc on Jul 22, 2024
I can tell you the system works, and works very well at that, and our 16 zone unit is not even in America. It’s in Spain.
Our system has about 10 sprinklers per zone, and so the system has saved us 1000’s since it was installed. Yes, it took me a good few months to get my setting correct. It meant reading old posts here to understand the settings and the implications of some of them.
But as already said, garbage in, garbage out.
If you are interested in actually fixing the problems, then post details of just one zone to start with. If you have a spare zone, you could set up a dummy zone with details matching another zone, and then adjust certain parameters, and see the effects by comparing both.
post by RPostWVU on Jul 23, 2024
I work in Controls Engineering and I, too, initially found the software confusing. There’s a lot of variables that overlap, and its not really clear what the impact is from each variable or what an effective way to adjust them is.
However, with just a little reading around here, and after some trial and error I was able to dial in my settings to where I want them (just enough water to keep my grass mostly green). Its worked just peachy for 3 years now with very little input. I never had to pay a professional $6k was the lowest quote I had for my system…was able to do it all myself for around $1200.
There’s always the option to pay a professional if you want to be impatient.
post by Even on Jul 25, 2024
Check the dictionary…slander is defined as making false statements. Nothing I reported here is false. Are you employed by Rachio because their rules state the reply should “improve the conversation”. Sad that you would attack the consumer when they are clearly frustrated by a less than perfect system that ships their support overseas. If a consumer needs to hire someone to set up a Rachio, it is NOT USER FRIENDLY. And why would anyone want to purchase a system that is based on trial and error?
post by tmcgahey on Jul 25, 2024
Topic title… The Rachio product is worthless By your definition…
We are here to help you. The system isn’t NOT user friendly and it isn’t about trial and error, you just have to have a working concept of your irrigation system and your yard in order to properly set up the zones so that the system can run correctly. Is there more involved than other “smart” controllers on the market? Maybe, but that is because it is by far the most powerful when set to run Flex Daily schedules.
Again, if you’d like to post up some screenshots of your PWS history, we can try to figure out what the issue is at hand. There is nothing saying that you need to buy another piece of equipment for Rachio to run correctly…just a little due diligence that it is reporting correctly.
post by championc on Jul 31, 2024
A dumb controller is exactly that. But you bought a “Smart Sprinkler Controller”, so were you expecting it to somehow magically learn everything about your lawn / yard?
post by Even on Jul 31, 2024
Wow! Talk about dumb!
post by championc on Aug 7, 2024
Are you reflecting
post by Lurker on Aug 9, 2024
Not sure I’d agree that the Rachio product is worthless. But without a manual, it is unquestionably worth less.
If the answer to the OP is “Yes, it took me a good few months to get my setting correct. It meant reading old posts here to understand the settings and the implications of some of them,” then it’s not “garbage in, garbage out” - it’s spend a good few months because there’s no manual, or else garbage out.
When I get a complex product, the first thing I do is read the table of contents of the manual, to get an idea of the capabilities and features and how to make use of them.
Then when I want to understand a feature, or figure out how to tweak it, I read the relevant section of the manual.
There are a lot of folks in this community that understand the intricacies of the Rachio 3. I respect you. I should not need to invest the time to become one of you in order to use my Rachio 3. I should not need to spend months trying to find the posts that have the answers I need. I should have a manual with a table of contents and an index.
A complex product without that is not ready to be a consumer product.
post by Even on Aug 10, 2024
Yes, on your comment. You pretty much affirmed that this rain sensor is not user friendly! LOL!
post by championc on Aug 10, 2024
It needs effort. If you don’t want to apply effort, just stick to a dumb controller.
We saved €6,000 per year over what we originally paid for water annually. We have it running a 16 zone system on a 4,200m² apartment complex.
post by tmcgahey on Aug 12, 2024
To use as a connected smart controller with basic fixed schedules with weather skips, you don’t need to…but if you want to use the incredibly dynamic flex daily schedules, you can’t expect the Rachio controller to know your yard without user inputs.
post by porta on Aug 13, 2024
My experience with the Rachio is less than stellar too. There was no alert that the zones were not being irrigated. When I went to find out why some plants were drooping I saw that the controller was ‘dead’. The adapter was warm, and it was verified good at the plug with a volt meter. The Rachio restarted after the plug was re-inserted and around 2am that night I could hear water running. Zone 1 was Disabled, and Zone 1 was sprinkling. Nothing I did with the phone would stop the sprinkling, I had to disconnect the solenoid. Way simpler than the case Even described.
I do not agree with Even that the product is ‘worthless’, but can sympathize with the sentiment. He wrote “…before I went to bed I checked the program and it said it would skip. But an hour before it was to run (3 am), it notified me that it would run.” He has tried “to resolve this through their support department which is shipped overseas. It is difficult to understand them. Even though they SEEM to know the screens and functionality, they obviously don’t understand the concepts. have no clue how to help me or they would have.”
RPostWVU wrote “I work in Controls Engineering and I, too, initially found the software confusing.” That is it in a nutshell, so what hope is there for those of us who are not into Control Engineering? We do no have the background to figure things out.
championc wrote “…it took me a good few months to get my setting correct. It meant reading old posts here to understand the settings and the implications of some of them.” That is not an endorsement, it is an indictment. How many hours did it take to gather enough information to move forward?
tmcgahey wrote “Is there more involved than other “smart” controllers on the market? Maybe, but that is because it is by far the most powerful when set to run Flex Daily schedules.” It is normal for any product to come with a manual, Rachio does not. The fact that it is more ‘powerful’ makes it incumbent upon the manufacturer to provide comprehensive information and guidance.
RPostWVU wrote “…with just a little reading around here, and after some trial and error I was able to dial in my settings to where I want them…” I would have expected sympathy for Even, he apparently did the same thing. His Rachio ‘promised’ to skip and then reneged. That falls into your trial and error experience, which should not be necessary.
This Forum has a cadre of users who are well versed in the capabilities of the Rachio, and how to program it. This knowledge is scattered over how many threads? How many hours of reading does it take to get a grasp?
Lurker wrote “When I get a complex product, the first thing I do is read the table of contents of the manual, to get an idea of the capabilities and features and how to make use of them.” How can anybody disagree with this approach?
tmcgahey wrote “…if you want to use the incredibly dynamic flex daily schedules, you can’t expect the Rachio controller to know your yard without user inputs.” That is deflection, Lurker is not talking about the controller knowing his yard, he is talking about being able to learn enough about the product to program his yard. What user inputs are you talking about? Which user input affects what function? It is the manufacturer’s responsibility to educate the buyer, no one should have to do what this thread is saying is needed to learn the Rachio.
Might I suggest that the knowledgable users create threads that are tutorials? Pick a subject, explain what it does, and describe how to program it. A series of tutorials would be invaluable to everyone who has a Rachio.
post by tmcgahey on Aug 13, 2024
Easily available online, or a quick couple taps in the app take you to a ton of support manuals, documentation, and support articles for common issues.
Literally what I asked for in the first response of this particular thread…
Zone settings. Knowing what your soil type is. Knowing what your sprinkler nozzles are (make and model) so you can accurately set your precipitation rate. All the inputs that make up the zone settings.
post by Gary on Aug 13, 2024
@porta, that was a great post (even though the 2nd half was a repeat of the first half). I don’t fault the defensiveness of the replies given the rudeness of the OP.
I haven’t used support. Is it really overseas? That would be disappointing.
post by Demitry on Aug 13, 2024
@porta @Even It seems the smarter the controller the dumber it is and the smarter the user has to be. Oh the irony.
My advice would be to not use the smart features of the controller and simply program a base schedule, adjust as needed as seasons change, add rain skip or a moisture sensor and be happy.
Why do I feel this way?..because there is nothing smart about these dynamic schedules that are frankly just guessing and this is especially true if not using adjustable moisture sensors (and even those drift from their settings as they age requiring constant tinkering)
There is no way Rachio can tell which plants you’re growing, is it a lawn, are they roses, pepper plants…it has no clue. Some plants need more water, some less, some prefer moist soil perpetually others want it to dry out between watering. Only you can see how your plants respond, the soil moisture saturation level etc. There are just too many variables, like wind, night temps, day temps, dew point, relative vs absolute humidity, vapor pressure deficit and so on.
This frankly isn’t a Rachio only issue as just about every manufacturer that sells these smart features knows (or should know) full well that they won’t (cant) work as advertised. They have no way of knowing how your plants are doing and therefore all the added complexity is just fluff to sell units and add a feature line on the box that keeps up the Jones’ of the industry.
Rachio is far from worthless, it works and for many people but has its limitations. The best part about these “smart” controllers is the ability to adjust them from anywhere, to be able to trim or increase duration without having to go to the controller…beyond that you have to be incredibly lucky.
“Simplicity is the key to brilliance.”- Bruce Lee.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”- Leonardo DaVinci.
post by tmcgahey on Aug 13, 2024
It isn’t guessing. It is using the information about zone settings, plus weather data to CALCULATE soil moisture. This method is used all the time in agriculture and turf.
Shame that you feel that way. I’ve been using Rachio Flex Daily schedules for almost 8 years in Arizona with great success. This year we broke a record of 79 consecutive days over 100 degrees so far, and while my water bill is at a record high to keep up (water rates increased drastically this year), my yard looks great. I do have some Ficus trees and citrus that have physical burning, but no amount of water is going to stop that with our prolonged heat this year.
post by Demitry on Aug 13, 2024
Then consider yourself lucky your plants have what they require. You can “calculate” moisture levels all you want…the fact is it and you have no clue unless you stick a finger in it.
The Ag industry uses things like Evapotranspiration to dial in their systems but they also know which specific crops they are growing and the levels they require. They are NOT guessing like these systems about which plants are being watered in mixed gardens. Your juniper trees don’t require water hardly at all while your Bermuda grass needs a monsoon. Rachio has no idea what crop is being irrigated and therefore success here largely luck dependent as there is no way plants can give the unit feedback on how they are doing. Only you can do this visually.
The product reviews for these automatic features for ALL controllers not just Rachio are full of horror stories. Sure you can set it up close designate the general crop type (8 for Rachio) but only the plants can give you the feedback for how they are responding and so without a controlled test, I would be willing to bet that success and failure rates here are anecdotal.
post by tmcgahey on Aug 13, 2024
You are 100% right, but that is where the fine tuning and dialing things in comes into play. Most every yard has a massive variation of vegetation, and you have to fine tune things so that you make most of the plants (or your most important plants at the very least) happy. The system is still calculating the needs based on ET, Kc, etc.
All the cases that you reference, soil probes, or sticking your finger in the soil still doesn’t “fix” the fact that like you said, each plant has different needs. I will argue until I’m blue in the face that if you take some time to dial things in, the system can 100% be set it and forget it.
At the end of the day, Rachio Flex Schedules aren’t for everyone. People with horribly maintained systems or poorly designed systems will struggle without a doubt. People have come on here before having a single zone that has sprinklers for grass, single 1gph drip emitters watering trees and shrubs, which will be almost impossible to set up correctly with Flex Daily, but will also be extremely difficult to set up fixed schedules that will keep things happy.
@Demitry, I’d love for you to actually spend a bit of time creating your own post, share your yard setup, your settings, and let some of the community members help you dial things in. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised.
post by Demitry on Aug 13, 2024
I installed Rachios at my mother in laws house and helped my next door neighbor install both of theirs.
At my in laws the Rachio unit does a great job, they love it…I have no complaints their yard is fairly simple, roses, boxwood and a small patch of turf. I might play with the Flex Schedule here to see how it does as everything is isolated and on it’s own zone.
My neighbor has TWO Rachios set up she also loves it, her yard looks great but she (along with every neighbor in my neighborhood) has the same problem I have which is two separate valve sets making Flex Scheduling a no go as the valves are affected by pressure if one zone runs during the other. Running the 24v lines back to the front is not viable as in ground is all concrete part of the way around and running the wire into the rafters is ugly. So she has two units and just adjusts them as needed. She’s happy.
For me I’m using OpenSprinkler on a fixed schedule to bridge the two valve sets that I adjust manually. One short duration repeating to prevent runoff (sloping turf) (3 valves - 1 for Hedges the other two for fescue) and the other a two set times for my back yard lawn. (3 valves all for my fescue). The unit does have the ability to use ET based adjustments like Rachio but I haven’t played with it. Maybe I’ll try it. My main gripe that keeps me from using Rachio myself is that I want it to function as a single unit and hence why I don’t use one personally. Yet…
Currently I’m researching some remote relays that I think I can configure which would allow me to wirelessly extend the ports on a Rachio manually, I could then accomplish what I want with just one controller. Not really cost effective so far but will see. If I wind up going this route I’ll be sure to share the setup as I’ve seen quite a few people with this need. This wireless 24v line extender is really a product I wish rachio offered.
post by porta on Aug 15, 2024
Your defense of the indefensible is wearing.
Not everyone has gigabit internet, and cell service is less than adequate in all too many locations.
If you really want to contribute to the education of buyers, gather all of those pages and create a PDF that would benefit everybody. If you include some tutorials on how to use the flex daily schedules you will win converts.