Replace Rainbird ESP-6 which has a transformer inside - Troubleshooting / Wiring - Rachio Community
post by leilobound on May 9, 2023
Thank you @Thomas_Lerman and @tmcgahey !
The Rainbird is installed inside the garage.
I’m not sure what is that angled pipe thing that is connected to the bottom
That pipe seems to be connected to the transformer unit which has the two power cables coming out of it and connected to the two 24 VAC.
IIUC, to replace with Rachio3, I still need a transformer - correct?
@tmcgahey, for the outdoor box that you recommended, does it contain a transformer? And also, I assume it can also be installed inside correct?
Thanks!
post by leilobound on May 9, 2023
Forgot to include one more picture
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 9, 2023
It sounds like within the pipe with the elbow connected to the Rainbird is the input to the transformer at 120VAC. Then the transformer changes it to 24VAC which drives the Rainbird and valves. Does that sound correct to you?
The options seem to be (turn off the breaker that provides the Rainbird power first):
- Connect a box & outlet to the same connection the is currently on the Rainbird. Rachio would be nearby and plug the Rachio wall wart into that and then into the Rachio
- Install the outdoor enclosure that @tmcgahey referred to which should be fine indoors (could always leave the door open or maybe take it off). The enclosure has an outlet built into it and you could connect the pipe & wires into that very similar to the box & outlet I just mentioned.
Personally, I probably would do the first one as it would be less expensive and I could use the other 1/2 of the outlet for something else.
post by leilobound on May 9, 2023
Thanks @Thomas_Lerman.
That sounds right to me.
But I need two wires at 24Vac going into the two barrel connectors on rachio3 (screenshot below) . Are you saying I can reuse the existing transformer (which has the two wires coming out at 24 Vac)?
post by leilobound on May 9, 2023
Maybe I mis-understood.
Are you saying I don’t need those two wires (at 120 Vac) coming out from that elbowed pipe?
Since rachio3 already comes with a power adapter so just plug that to the wall outlet and the other end (which is a male barrel connector) to plug into Rachio3 a female connector (circled in below picture).
Is everything correct?
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 9, 2023
Yes make an outlet out of the 120 volts from that pipe, plug in the rachio wall work, and then plug the barrel connector into the rachio. Definitely do not try to put 24 volts onto those terminals
post by leilobound on May 9, 2023
Thanks.
I already have a wall outlet nearby. So I mean I don’t need to use those two120 vac wires from the pipe - correct? Or perhaps those two wires are dedicated for the sprinkler controller so I should stick to them?
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 10, 2023
Oh, I see. I would likely use the already existing outlet. I do wonder if the wires connected through that pipe is going to the outlet. You might be able to check it out when you disconnect the Rainbird. I would just make sure you take care of those wires properly.
post by leilobound on May 10, 2023
Thanks @Thomas_Lerman.
I recalled they were separated becoz I have a switch that can turn off the power of wall outlets in garage except power to the Rainbird.
So I may want to use those two red wires coming from the pipe. Probably buy a Rachio outdoor enclosure box since you guys mentioned there is a built-in outlet where I can hook up the wires from the pipe to the built in outlet.
So should I use both red wires from the pipe or just only 1 of them to hook up to the black wire of the built-in outlet of the enclosure box?
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 10, 2023
You definitely need a hot and neutral, if no ground is supplied that is probably okay. If both of the wires are red coming out of the pipe, I am not sure which is which. That would be wise not to have power dependent on a switch hike that outlet is.
post by leilobound on May 10, 2023
Thanks for the advice.
I think the green one is neutral. The dark bare wire (coming out from a hole above the transformer) may be a ground wire, but not sure.
The two red wires from the pipe (thru the transformer) are currently connected to the two 24 VAC terminals of the Rainbird. If they are both NOT controlled by any switch, can I just pick one of them? I would imagine they both supply 24 VAC, so they should not have any difference - is that correct? Or I’m missing something there?
post by DLane on May 10, 2023
@leilobound - the 120 VAC supply line is probably the lower set with a black, white and bare (copper) wire. Those are the wires that would be connected to the Rachio external enclosure. Everything else from the Rainbird should be abandoned.
On the right side, the white Com and Station 1 - 5 or 6 wires will go to the Rachio C and 1 - 6 terminals.
post by leilobound on May 10, 2023
Thanks @DLane!
It’s amazing you can tell by just looking at the picture. I have no idea. Just curious - what is the upper set for?
post by DLane on May 10, 2023
@leilobound - Educated guess/deduction/not my first rodeo:
- Non-metallic sheathed conduit (AKA Romex) normally comes with a black wire for hot, a white wire for neutral, and a bare ground wire. That is why I’m assuming the bottom set of wires comes from the circuit breaker.
- The transformer will have the input wires on the opposite side of the output wires. As the wires exiting the top of the transformer go to the Rainbird 24 VAC terminals, the 120 VAC input wires will be on the bottom of the transformer. I’m guessing the upper pair of wires connect to the input side of the transformer.
Worst case I have the wire sets reversed. It will all be readily apparent when the Rainbird is uninstalled as the wires coming from the wall will be the input source to the outdoor enclosure/wall plug whichever you decide.
Enjoy and welcome to the community.
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 10, 2023
That is right about the Romex and it looks like it does have Romex when I zoom way in on my phone. If very individual wires, ground is usually green. If you do it yourself, make sure you turn off the breaker and double-check with a multimeter that the power is off. If you do not know that much about it, I probably would suggest getting somebody that does, just to be safe.
post by leilobound on May 11, 2023
Thanks @DLane and @Thomas_Lerman!
The lower set NM cable has black, white, and copper wires. The upper set NM cable has an additional red hot wire beside black, white, and copper.
I guess I need to turn off the power to the rainbird at the circuit breaker panel and then use a voltage meter to test for the presence of voltage on the black wire of each cable. The cable that does not show voltage when tested is likely the one that comes from the circuit breaker. Does that make sense?
post by DLane on May 11, 2023
@leilobound - The last picture helps, I couldn’t see all the wires in there. It’s now a toss-up as to which wire bundle is hot. When you have all the parts you need and are ready to install the Rachio - yes, turn off the power at the breaker box, uncap the wires, test for voltage potential between them before removing the Rainbird box, remove the Rainbird box and hopefully there will only be one set of wires left. I’m thinking one set of wires goes to the transformer. If needed, then the circuit breaker can be turned on and the wires checked for voltage potential to identify the wire bundle coming from the panel.
post by leilobound on May 11, 2023
Thanks @DLane!
I’ll try it out later in the week or next and see. Will update here also. Thanks!
post by tmcgahey on May 11, 2023
Your black in this picture is hot, white is neutral, bare copper is ground, and red is probably there because you said your garage outlets are switched. Chances are the red is a switched hot lead. So, I would purchase the Rachio enclosure and hook the black, white, and bare copper to the new outlet inside the Rachio enclosure. Leave the red capped, just like it is currently.
You DO NOT want to use these 24v wires. They will stay with the old enclosure when you remove it, as they are supplying power from the old transformer to the old timer's brain.
Also, it looks as though the zone wires come through that pipe. Just tag each zone in the old controller, and put it in the same slots as Rachio. If the electrical side is a bit deep for you, a handyman or electrician should be able to handle it with ease.
post by leilobound on May 11, 2023
Thanks @tmcgahey !
Just to make sure - you are referring to the wires in the NM cable circled in purple in the below picture - correct?
Yes my garage wall outlets have switch control, but not sure the switch controls all the outlets, or just some of them. And I’ve no idea if this NM cable is tied to the switch as well.
To be safe, I would prefer to test those black wires with the meter to make sure it’s coming from the circuit breaker as discussed earlier in the thread.
And yes I bought the Rachio enclosure also 😎
Thanks!
post by tmcgahey on May 11, 2023
Yes, those are the wires, all of them that have the beige wire nuts. The black wire is what is currently providing the 120v power to the Rainbird transformer, which is converting it to 24VAC for the current controller. White is neutral. While not used in this Rainbird transformer, I’m sure the Rachio enclosure is going to have a ground connection (bare wire back left top), so I’d recommend that connection as well.
I’m fairly certain that the red wire is going to be a switch hot. I’d put money that if you pulled the other outlets, they probably all have a red wire either attached to the outlet (1 of 2 outlets is switched) or is capped in the box like this one (outlet is not switched).
It really is going to be fairly straightforward, but electrical can be intimidating, so no worries if you need to bring someone in for the electrical side!
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
Hi @tmcgahey @DLane @Thomas_Lerman
I took out the Rainbird and all the wires are shown in the picture below.
The UPPER NM cable is connected back behind the wall to the input of the Rainbird transformer.
The circuit breaker panel controls the LOWER NM cable. I tested the black wire of the lower NM cable (see the 2nd picture after I turn on the circuit breaker). There is no voltage after I turn off the circuit breaker.
But for the black wire on the upper NM cable, I tested the same way and there is NO voltage on the black wire at all.
So I should use the lower NM cable for the Rachio enclosure - correct?
Also, should I just cut the wires (black, green, white) that are connecting to the Rainbird transformer and protect them with wire nuts and tapes? And same for the upper NM cable just put wire nuts and tapes?
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
I guess maybe I don’t even need the lower NM cable. I already plug my Rainbird into my other wall outlet (switched control also). So I just connect the white Com and Station 1 - 5 or 6 wires to the Rachio C and 1 - 6 terminals.
I just need some way to secure those NM cable wires.
post by DLane on May 14, 2023
@leilobound - for any wire I abandon in place, I cap them with a wire nut and maybe wrap it with electrical tape - belt and suspenders approach. No need to cap or tape the bare copper wire. If you want to use the Rachio outdoor enclosure, then you can attach the lower NM wires to it and plug the Rachio transformer into its outlet, otherwise, keep using the switched outlet.
Does the upper NM cable go to an electrical box in the wall and that is why the wires can’t just be pulled out? It looks like the bare copper wire transitions to a covered green wire.
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
Thanks @DLane for your prompt response! I appreciate it!
I tried to pull either from the upper NM cable or from the wires connecting to the transformer, but got stuck somewhere and can’t pull out any further. Not sure what is connected inside unless I cut the hole large enough to see inside.
Not sure why there are a bunch of black tapes on those wires connecting to the Rainbird transformer.
Should I just cut those wires and protect them as well?
post by DLane on May 14, 2023
Yes, I would cut, cap and tape the wires going to the transformer. The tape is probably a joint where the built-in wires from the transformer were connected to the wires going to the upper NM.
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 14, 2023
I may be behind on all this and maybe confused. The upper cable was connected to the Rainbird and never has power? But the lower one was not connected and has power? Is either of them switched?
post by tmcgahey on May 14, 2023
The lines with no power most likely travel onto another outlet in the garage. You will want to connect those, otherwise you probably have a dead outlet somewhere.
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
Oh right. The two black wires were capped together in the Rainbird setup. I should connect them back. Thanks! FYI @Thomas_Lerman
I have a hard time how to handle those two NM cables and the wires cut from the transformer. Should I stick them back behind the walls after I cap and tape them?
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 14, 2023
Oh, I see, I think. The upper & lower were both connected with the Rainbird. I would connect them as already suggested. If they are too short to connect and go to the Rachio enclosure, you might have to connect a third wire going to the Rachio or eliminate the other connection ending up with a dead outlet or something. I would find out where it goes.
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
Thanks @Thomas_Lerman for your suggestions.
I’m thinking I don’t even need the NM cables. I already plug my Rainbird into my other wall outlet (switched control also). So I just connect the white Com and Station 1 - 5 or 6 wires to the Rachio C and 1 - 6 terminals. Then cap and wrap all other wires and stick them back behind the wall.
Or use Rachio enclosure, but just more work to wire the cables and zone wires into the two holes at the bottom of the enclosure.
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 14, 2023
Then just leave the switch on. That will work unless someone accidentally or out of habit turns it off. Curious about switched outlets in a garage. Just stuffing the capped wires inside the wall just might not be within code.
post by leilobound on May 14, 2023
@Thomas_Lerman, I was wrong. The switch is not for the garage outlets. It’s for the outdoor lights. Sorry about the confusion.
All the outlets in the garage look fine without the two black wires connected. So perhaps it’s safe not to hook them up together.
But either I use the enclosure or not, I’ll still end up having some open wires hanging without anything connected - e.g. the wires that were going into the Rainbird transformer. What is the proper building code to handle that?
post by Thomas_Lerman on May 14, 2023
It might depend on the area, but I was taught all high voltage wires must terminate in a box. There might be exceptions. That makes more sense about the switch.
post by tmcgahey on May 14, 2023
100% it is not code. Any electrical connections need to terminate within a junction box. You could cut in an “old work” box behind the controller, tie each of the black, white, and ground wires together, along with a pigtail from each to power the Rachio enclosure.
post by DLane on May 15, 2023
@leilobound - I’m kind of surprised that you can’t see where the upper NM wire is going as it looks like there is only a 3" or so gap between the two sets of holes. It may be hung up on a set of wire nuts joining the wires together. The Rainbird looks like it was installed after the wall was put up, so I’m not expecting the wire to be stapled to a 2 x 4 or another box back there. Assuming that there is continuity between the upper NM wires and the corresponding wires for the transformer and the wire bundles move in tandem when pulled from one end or the other and there is a couple of inches of movement when the wires are pulled - then I don’t think the upper NM wires and the transformer wires are connected to anything else - so they would be dead (not carrying any current) if they are not connected to anything else at either end.
post by leilobound on May 16, 2023
Hi @DLane, thanks for your suggestion. I kind of hesitate to pull out the cable from either end by force since I couldn’t see clearly what is connected inside. I probably may be able to see inside with bright light. I will probably unwrap those black tapes - maybe that is hanging everything together. Yes, the upper NM cable and the wires to the transformer are dead (and do not affect any other outlets, etc inside the garage); only the lower NM cable carries current, and I can stick that inside the Rachio compartment. Thanks!
post by tmcgahey on May 16, 2023
We obviously don’t know your home, but these “dead” wires just mean that they are downstream of the line power from the panel. You will want to connect those, otherwise you probably have a dead outlet somewhere.