Phoenix AZ: Need help adjusting schedule

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 2, 2017

Installed my Rachio back in October and have it connected to the local weather station and working great. Well, until the brutal AZ summer started to kick in. Now, most of my plants are drying out and I’m manually adding additional irrigation cycles or watering from a hose.

I’m guessing that there is an easy way to modify my settings to adjust for the summer heat? Anyone out there able to guide me in this endeavor? Tooling around I see that I can keep my current flex daily cycle but simply change the two sections with poor results (my shrubs) to 150%. Is that acceptable? Suggestions?

BTW–my soil was setup as this: Sandy Loam ‘Available Water’ (AW) to 0.08.

Thanks!

post by azdavidr on Jul 2, 2017

There are a lot of Flex power users from the Phoenix area on this forum @jeremysm1, so I’m sure we can help get you dialed in better. First of all, where did you get the AW of 0.08? I’m not sure that’s the issue, but it’s a good starting point. If you could also post screen shots of the zones that you have in question, including ‘advanced settings’, we can get going.

And regarding your shrubs, if you haven’t already done so, take a look at this post and report back how close you think you have been to the associated recommendations.

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 2, 2017

Attached is a screenshot for my backyard Rachio setup–the front yard has a different zone but same setup (same vegetation). Also have a trees zone. TBH, I don’t recall how I came up with these settings, but when I installed the system several people guided me. In addition, I’m sure the square footage is incorrect. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

post by azdavidr on Jul 2, 2017

@jeremysm1, the best advice I have to offer would just be a repeat of the two posts below. I recommend you go through the soil survey first, then the drip link which I pointed to previously. Your Available Water, crop coefficient and root depth all strike me as being too low. Please post back after looking through both of these threads and let us know what you find. You may need to take incremental steps to get to the point where you are watering according to the recommendations below.

post by azdavidr on Jul 3, 2017

For reference, here are my settings. There will be variability based on your plant type and maturity. If you’re seeing issues with wilting, etc, then I’d venture to guess you need to bump up your root depth and crop coefficient. The root depth will create deeper watering, but will also drop back the frequency. The higher crop coefficient will create more frequent watering. Still be sure to double check that Available Water setting before making any changes.

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 3, 2017

From the websoil survey site, here are my screenshots with the info we need: (I used 40 inches deep for this example)

post by azdavidr on Jul 3, 2017

It looks like you’re about right for a starting point. Maybe bump up to .09 or 0.1. Some have said that when their neighborhoods were built builders brought in a lot of soil which may make the numbers different, perhaps more like loam? If it were me I’d bump the AW up just a tad then consider your vegetation. If you have plants that aren’t too water hungry the 0.5 for crop coefficient would be ok, but if you’re like me something closer to 0.7 might be in order. Once you make that adjustment move on to the drip calculator link.

post by Modawg2k on Jul 3, 2017

Your numbers look pretty close to mine, with the exception that I’m at .09 on the AW. My big question for you: Are you using the default emitter nozzle that is on the Rachio? Or did you create a custom nozzle?

post by azdavidr on Jul 3, 2017

@Modawg2k, would you say that most of your shrubs are fairly drought tolerant? If it weren’t for about 2 types I have in my yard, I’d be able to drop lower. Last year when the temps cranked up they weren’t happy. 0.7 seemed to do it.

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 3, 2017

I’m using an emitter called “Emitter” and believe it’s the standard one. Almost all of my vegetation is the form of shrubs or similar. I believe they either have .5gph or 1gph emitters on them. Do you guys have a recommendation for the emitter size I should use on these, and also should I setup a new emitter reflecting that size? I'm going to change my settings to the .09 AW and .7 CC for my front and back zones (shrub zones). I'm going to look now at the next link you sent. Thx

post by azdavidr on Jul 3, 2017

That sounds like a good plan @jeremysm1. The higher the crop coefficient number, the more frequent the watering. If your yard gets ‘happy’ again you can experiment with gradually dropping down from 0.7. With regards to the emitter setup, that drip calculator you’re moving on to will walk you through it. It will help you to make sure that at each watering event you’re supplying the recommended amount of water.

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 3, 2017

Thanks! I’ll need to dig into that spreadsheet a bit deeper, but I have adjusted the other settings and we’ll report progress. I’ll probably have some more questions after I have time to digest the spreadsheet (later today).

post by Modawg2k on Jul 3, 2017

I have 2 GPH on all plants and I can tell you that the default Emitter nozzle was not watering long enough and my plants were suffering. It only makes sense that since your settings are like mine, that yours were hurting a bit too.

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 3, 2017

I’m sure that my plants around the yard are mostly 1gph–some of the desert/small plants could even be .5gph bubblers! The trees I believe are 2gph. Looking at the chart, I have no clue of what I should be targeting for the “Gallons you want to apply to each plant in one watering cycle” section. In the example, it shows 7.5 gallons and for the section “Inches of Water applied in Flex Daily schedule” it shows 1.19.

In my Flex Schedule for the backyard, it shows .60! I made the changes as mentioned in the prior posts, and also changed the backyard and frontyard to 130% as of now–just to get more water now before plants start dying.

post by azdavidr on Jul 3, 2017

Did you read through all of the spreadsheet instructions @jeremysm1? It walks you through using the ‘Water Use It Wisely’ information which will tell you how many gallons you should target.

post by Linn on Jul 3, 2017

Just FYI, in my yard I have mostly 1/2gph emitters and I use a custom nozzle of .2in/hour. You definitely want to switch from the default.

post by tmcgahey on Jul 5, 2017

I have 1gph emitters on all my shrubs, with the biggest of shrubs having 2 1gph emitters. Right now my CC is set at .5 and everything looks pretty good, with the exception of a few shrubs that always suffer this time of year (high temps and no humidity). These shrubs include hibiscus and silver bush morning glory, but once the monsoons hit, they spring back and look amazing. I’ve thought about messing with bigger emitters or something, but in reality, there are 2-3 weeks a year where they don’t look their best, so I may just leave it. I think if you have a problem with only a couple plants, I would address the emitters on those specific plants rather than adjusting the whole system, which seems to be working well…

post by Modawg2k on Jul 5, 2017

I’ll see if I can snap some pictures tonight...

post by jeremysm1 on Jul 5, 2017

Curious if you guys use pressure compensating emitters or if anyone uses flag or non-pressure compensating emitters? Wondering if it makes a difference and even if you can mix?

post by JPedrego on Jul 5, 2017

I use flag emitters for my “one valve wonder” zone. It has a ton of plants on it that vary from drought tolerant to very thirsty. I would prefer to switch them all out to pressure compensating but there are a ton of emitters and I haven’t worked up the willpower to switch them all out. From what I’ve read it can cause issues with uneven watering, the emitters closest to the valve may output more water and the ones farthest will not get as much. I do have a couple of spots where everything I’ve planted has died on me which may be cause by underwatering but I can’t say for sure.

post by tmcgahey on Jul 5, 2017

The original emitters in my yard I’m not 100% positive, but any that I have replaced have been pressure compensating. Both my old and new are the round style, I just don’t know if those come without pressure compensating or not...

post by tmcgahey on Jul 5, 2017

Are you sure that is a 2gph (bottom of the picture? Usually emitters are pretty standardized with color and red usually indicates 4pgh.

post by Modawg2k on Jul 5, 2017

That emitter was transplanted from another plant from the original landscape builder. I’ve measured them and they do output 2 gph. I did wonder about color variations, but I just bought a few emitters on amazon and you can see that their Red is 2gph.

However, I bought some 1/2 GPH at Lowe’s and they are red also. Are colors maybe consistent across just the manufacturer?

post by JPedrego on Jul 5, 2017

yeah I’ve seen differences in the coloring between rainbird emitters and Drip emitters so I don’t think they are completely consistent across manufacturers.

post by tmcgahey on Jul 5, 2017

Looks like you are right. Rainbird does a 2gph in red. Most red I have seen are either .5 or 4gph.

post by tmcgahey on Jul 5, 2017

As promised. I may have misspoke. I think I may have Yellowbells.

post by azdavidr on Jul 5, 2017

I may have to experiment with dropping my shrub crop coefficient back down from 0.7 based on what you guys are successful with. I added some soil amendments to my boxwoods a couple of months ago. Maybe that was the real problem?

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

I’m back on the thread as my landscaper insists that we haven’t been watering the plants enough. He said to me last week that he’s concerned that if we don’t increase the watering even the trees will die. What are some ideas how I can change settings so that it waters at a higher level across the board? Thanks!

post by Modawg2k on Oct 9, 2017

I know you posted several months back, but put up some new screen shots of your settings and we can figure it out.

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

Let me know what screen shots will help? Here’s a couple. Thanks!

post by Modawg2k on Oct 9, 2017

What’s in this backyard zone? trees and shrubs?

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

I have 4 zones setup: Trees, Backyard, Front Yard, and one zone with 2 small trees and a shrub (don’t know why they did that). In this backyard zone, we have all the vegetation/plants/shrubs/vines except the trees.

post by sunny on Oct 9, 2017

Are the plants looking stressed? Observation of plant health is really an important factor. If the vegetation is showing signs of stress, you may want to rethink your settings. Are the leaves turning brown or wilting?

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

Yes. I would say that they are ALL looking stressed–except I don’t know how to tell on the trees (but the landscaper thought the trees are stressed too).

post by Modawg2k on Oct 9, 2017

Forgive me if this information is above, but did you figure out what size your emitters are?

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

Seems like most are 1gph. Trees are 2gph.

post by Modawg2k on Oct 9, 2017

So you obviously want to make sure that you know exactly what output emitters you have. Are you using the default Emitter nozzle from Rachio or did you create a custom one based off of @azdavidr spreadsheet?

post by azdavidr on Oct 9, 2017

Two things:

1. How established is your vegetation? It could be that the 20" root depth is too deep. Backing off will increase frequency while dropping the amount that you water each time.
2. Per @Modawg2k’s earlier question, are you using a custom nozzle and if so what’s the PR?

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 9, 2017

Most of the vegetation is about 3-years old, except most of the trees are about 9 years old. Where do I check if it’s a custom nozzle? It looks like I’m just using emitter as the selection–not a custom one. Suggestion? Thanks!

post by azdavidr on Oct 10, 2017

Go back to the Drip Emitter Calculator I posted on Jul 2nd. Go through the entire thing. It walks you through how to create a custom emitter and what to set it to. If you’re using the default one I’m sure it’s pretty far off, and is likely why you’re underwatering.

post by Modawg2k on Oct 10, 2017

So I think your issue is with the emitter setting. The default Rachio emitter is 0.5 in/hr. Based off @azdavidr’s spreadsheet, my custom emitter is set to 0.34 in/hr for 2 GPH drips. So I’m telling Rachio that my 2 GPH emitters are putting out less water/time than you are telling yours with the 1 GPH. My drips run just over 2 hours each to reach 15" roots (IMO your 20" roots could be too deep = longer run time, but more days between watering)

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 11, 2017

Is the .34 in/hr the field that says Precipitation Rate? If I change my root depth from 20 inches to 15 inches, plus if I change to the custom nozzle (emitter) with .34 what should the result be? More frequent, but shorter, watering? Thanks!

post by azdavidr on Oct 11, 2017

Don’t just use the 0.34 in/hr that @Modawg2k quoted. That number will vary depending on the maturity of your specific vegetation, and the emitter types and layout that you specifically have. You seem resistant to go through the calculator in its entirety, but I have to mention it again. If you’re going to drop your root depth do it first, then follow the calculator step by step. It was put together with the express purpose of teaching you how to set up your drip system with a Rachio controller.

post by jeremysm1 on Oct 11, 2017

I’m throwing in the towel on this Rachio. Does anyone have a referral to a Rachio expert that can come to my house and set this up? I’m in Scottsdale not far from West World. I just can’t sink additional time/effort into this and don’t want to risk losing my landscaping. Thanks!

post by azdavidr on Oct 12, 2017

In that case set up a fixed schedule. No need to lose any vegetation.