Need Help please! changing from indexing to standard valve - Troubleshooting / Sprinklers & Irrigation - Rachio Community
Need Help please! changing from indexing to standard valve
post by Kt43010 on May 8, 2020
I have an indexing valve and have already installed the Rachio 3 but now want to convert to standard valve so I can take more advantage of zone flexibility.
I have looked up some videos on how to do this and what parts I need but I still have a few questions.
Whats the difference between an antisiphon valve and a backflow preventer? I know my current system has some sort of valve before the indexing valve but not sure what exactly it is. I want to replace that valve as it is old and seems to be leaking but Im not sure what I should get and NOT sure if I still need that part when I switch to a standard system (although I assume I still need it). My system runs on city water so I’m pretty sure I don’t need a pump relay box…
Is it worth while to install the wireless flow meter? I purchased it a while ago and never got around to installing it. I can’t return it at this point BUT Ive been hearing very mixed reviews about its benefits. And I don’t want to spend the extra time installing it if its not going to be for much gain…thoughts?
Thanks so much for any assistance you can offer!!
Katie W.
post by tmcgahey on May 8, 2020
- Both valves have the same basic function, to protect the potable water system from contamination from the sprinkler system. Antisiphon need to be installed higher than the highes sprinkler or drip emitter to be effective. This means you will have a number of valves plumbed up in the air, one for each zone. I personally don’t care for antisiphon valves because each time a zone turns of, by design, the pressure is bled off and water is dumped out of the valve onto the ground.
A backflow preventer is a (usually brass) device that would come off thr main water line, be plumbed at the highest point, and from there, standard solenoid valves would be installed at ground level, or vetter yet, underground in an irrigarion box. No water should ever drip from these unless there is a crack in the bonnet. This is my preferred method if you are redoing the system.
- if you have it, and are re-plumbing the system, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to install. Rachio will not discontinue the use of the flow meter via software, and the leak detection could be beneficial.
post by Kt43010 on May 8, 2020
Ok thanks. I’ll purchase a brass backflow preventer… but don’t the individual valves each have their own solenoid component? (I think that’s what you are implying but I’m new to all this so want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding) I don’t have to do a separate solenoid component right?
Thanks again!
post by tmcgahey on May 8, 2020
There are a number of different manufacturers and they will all look a little different, but function the same.
I personally like the Hunter PVG valves. This is what they look like.
post by Kt43010 on May 8, 2020
I already purchased 4 orbit valves… hopefully they’ll be fine…
post by tmcgahey on May 8, 2020
Should be good! Those downstream of a backflow preventer, and you should be good. With some creative piping, you should be able to use your underground piping after removing the indexing valve.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Ok perfect! Thanks so much!
I’ll let you know if I have any issues
post by franz on May 9, 2020
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Ok so I’m at Home Depot and I was wondering does it matter to join brass to pvc? As my current stuff is pvc but you say most backflow preventers are brass…
I have found pvc options and brass options…I assume I need a construct similar to this. (But with the appropriate size pipes as I just grabbed something to take a pic)… do I need a valve on both sides of the middle check valve piece???
I was thinking of just using pvc and glueing it together if possible… although some of the pvc valves I found are threaded so not sure which is a better option…
Thanks
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Forget to send the pic… here it is
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
What you have in that picture is a check valve. Similar concept, but not the same as a backflow device. You’ll need to find something that looks like this.
As for connections, if staying PVC, you will just need some PVC male adapters to screw into each end of the backflow.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Ok I’ll look for that… so it is ok to screw pvc into brass? I wasn’t sure if you needed a special adapter
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
And I assume if I’m using the brass backflow you are showing and you pvc male adapters (I assume I don’t need a rubber washer or anything?) then I would use a 90degree elbow to take the pvc pipe down back to the ground to the new individual valves…??? Sound correct?
I’m on my way back to Home Depot anyway be I didn’t realize the individual valves I bought had threaded female ends so I have to go find what I need.
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
Totally fine. Best practice is to screw a male PVC into female brass (just make sure to use some Teflon tape). Other way around can lead to a cracked PVC fitting and failure.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Is there a specific name for the backflow preventer so they can help me find it
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
Sounds about right. Here is how my backflow is plumbed off the water main coming into my house.
What are you using these valves for? The backflow device will have a valve on the inlet and outlet already. If for another use, exchange them for glue type, they should have them.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Well now I’m not sure I need a backflow preventer as the people at Home Depot say that since my sprinklers run off city water you don’t need that preventer by there’s already so much pressure in the line… they say that you only need that if you run off a well or canal…
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
The other valves I was speaking about are the individual valves for each zone… i didn’t realize they were threaded and obviously my sprinkler pipes are smooth so I need a connected for that
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
Gotta love Home Depot experts…Running off city water is exactly why you’d need one. It’s code in most areas so that you don’t backfeed the city water system with contaminated water in the event of a pressure loss on the city side.
Here is one of my valve boxes in my yard.
Keep in mind the valves you ordered are threaded as well, so you will still need some male adapters to connect. The valves are 1", and chances are, your piping is 3/4, so you will need a 1" male thread x 3/4 glue adapter. You’ll also want to get some waterproof wire nuts to connect all the wiring together.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Ok well I picked up 4 of the hunter valves you like since 2 of the 4 orbit ones I bought on amazon were cracked… I got the adapters for it… so should be good there…
As far as the backflow valve goes… these guys say they’ve never seen it… I’m gonna have to look harder in the plumbing section to find it… otherwise I guess I could order it on amazon but wanted to get this done this weekend…
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
For the male adapters, just make sure the size of the glue end matches what you have in your current system that you are tying in to. The picture looks like a straight 1" male adapter, but most likely you will need a reducing male to get it down to 3/4, but I dont know for sure what you have in place after your current indexing valve.
In my picture, you are correct on the piping. Line on right coming out if the ground is the city main. Left, after the backflow is the line going to the various valves around my yard.
As for the backflow, they should have it. I’ve not seen a Home Depot without them…
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Well I just typed it in on their website and it says delivery only for all the options… I dunno… I’m gonna ask someone else again…
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Yeah I just showed another person the item on their website… they say they don’t carry it… it has to be ordered… they only carry the one valve things like this pic below… so I guess I’ll order it on amazon…
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
Hell, maybe it isn’t code in your area, and therefore HD doesn’t stock.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Hmm… I guess I can google if it is required in Florida…
post by Gene on May 9, 2020
In Florida you don’t need brass back-flow presenters, your old control valve probably already has it. Look for something like this (HD link) or this (link).
I ended up just keeping mine and using it as a master valve.
@tmcgahey is right, you definitely do not want yard water in your house in case lines develop suction.
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
Ok so it’s been a couple years since I initially wired my Rachio 3 with the indexing valve… just want to make sure I’m doing it right before I really switch this…
So the anti-siphon valve has 2 black wires and each individual zone valve has 2 red wires… I assume one of each of the red wires from the individual valves gets combined with one of the black wires from the antisiphon and the remaining red wires get attached to a new wire in order to take it to the controller but what happens to the remaining black wire from the antisiphon thing… I assume one of those black wires goes into the “M” part of the controller but there’s 2 of the black wires and I thought you had to connect one of each of the reds to one black so I dunno…???
Also do you know any better way to enclose the wires going from the antisiphon valve to the controller… this is how I had done it in my old system (but I’m installing a new anti-siphon by the old one is leaking now)… I had to “piece together” a way to seal/cover it
post by Kt43010 on May 9, 2020
post by Gene on May 9, 2020
If your old antisiphon valve is leaking / broken, you’ll want to cut it out and install a new one in its place. Not sure what you meant by installing a new one in parallel, it would not stop the leaks.
The valve itself is just another valve. It may be easier to simply run a separate wire bundle to your new valves. Use different C terminal and zone terminals for individualized valves. Do not run the wires through the master valve, as you thought. This is not a rain gauge and would not work correctly in such configuration.
For the old valve or its replacement, the valves should be hooked up to M and one of the C terminals. Be sure to enable master valve option in software.
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
No need to do anything with the wires from any of the valves. If you have irrigation wiring, it is a direct bury wire. No need to seal the solenoid either…At the wire connections, just use water proof wire nuts.
post by tmcgahey on May 9, 2020
One end of each of the wires will be wired back to the Rachio in each of the zone spots. The other wire from each solenoid will be wire nutted together with a single wire (usually white) back to Rachio which will connect to the C terminal.
post by Kt43010 on May 10, 2020
Ok… but Do both the black wires that come off the antisiphon valve go together to the “M” terminal… gene says I should have an antisiphon valve instead of back flow preventer and that he uses his as his main…??? … not sure if that changes anything with respect to the flexibility of using each zone individually.
post by tmcgahey on May 10, 2020
No, one will go to the M terminal, the other will go to a C (common) terminal, or can be bundled with the C wires from the other valves.
Since you have it, and it is functional, it will work. They essentially do the same thing, and give you the added benefit of a master valve. Once you set up Rachio and tell it that there is a master valve, it will work perfectly.
post by Kt43010 on May 16, 2020
I just wanted to give a huge thanks to you both for helping me out with all my questions!!!
I finished converting to individual valves during the week and finally filled in the huge hole today… just need some more dirt and then sod
post by franz on May 16, 2020
That setup looks great!